Voting Comments

Thayer's Gull
Record #38-B-08

1st Round: 6-1
2nd Round: 3-4
3rd Round: 2-5

3rd Round

7/5/09
Cliff Weisse--Reject, specific identification not established

same comments

07-02-2009
Shirley--Reject, specific identification not established

I'm staying with my 2nd round vote.

07-10-2009
chuck trost--Reject, specific identification not established

I agree that cliff raises some legitimate questions on this one.

07-03-2009
Dave Trochlell--Reject, specific identification not established

I vote to reject this one because of nagging doubts about the possibility of a hybrid.

5 July 2009
Hardy--Accept

I think that the very similar GWGUxHEGU hybrid is eliminated by the darker mantle color, smaller size and slenderer build of this bird in direct comparison to an adjacent HEGU. The dark orbital ring, lack of dark markings on bill, and smudging rather than streaking on head and neck, are also supportive of THGU. The primary pattern appears to fit THGU. This bird is not described as having bright pink legs, but some THGU do not.

7-18-09
Carlisle--Accept

torn on this one b/c I can see Cliff's points & wish it had been competed against a GW/hybrid but still think the bird was a Thayer's

07/09/2009
Darren Clark--Reject, specific identification not established

See previous comments

 

1st Round

2nd Round

4/1/09
Cliff Weisse -- Reject, specific identification not established

There are several points in the description that I don't feel comfortable with for THGU as follows:
1) Primaries extend "slightly beyond tail" on perched bird.  THGU has long primary extension.
2) Darker pink legs than HEGU, but not bright; THGU typically has brighter pink legs than HEGU
3) Gray primaries; some THGUs (10-15 %?) have gray primaries but most are black
4) Mirrors on P9&10 mostly confined to inner webs of feathers; THGU typically has extensively white tip to P10 usually with subterminal black band.  This white tip is extensive and covers most of the visible feather on the far side, or under side of the far wing, on perched birds and extends edge to edge.  A mirror confined to the inner web would be quite unusual for THGU.
5) Narrow white tips on outer primaries; THGU has large white A-Spots

All these features can be shown by GWGU x HEGU and I don't see anything in the description that would eliminate that possibility, especially a smaller more petite billed female.  There are several GWGUs in Howell and Dunn that match the bill proportions in this description and one adult GWGU x HEGU with mirror on P10 confined mostly to inner web.  This was likely a THGU but GWGU x HEGU cannot be ruled out based on the report.

5/1/09
Cliff Weisse--Reject, specific identification not established

Same comments

04-02-2009
Sturts--Accept

Very complete description and similar gulls were eliminated.

05-15-2009
Sturts--Reject, specific identification not established

This is possibly a Thayer's but Cliff has brought up some good reasons for a possilbe hybrid.

04-06-2009
chuck trost--Accept

Careful observation and write-up. The size, shape, wing pattern, eye color all seem to add up to Thayer's. Nice to see comparison with nearby Herrings.

06-27-2009
chuck trost--Accept

I still think this description is quite convincing. The silver under wing color and the color of the upper primaries sound like what I've seen and described as a Thayer's.

04-10-2009
Dave Trochlell--Accept

I'm convinced.

05-01-2009
Dave Trochlell--Reject, specific identification not established

Cliff made some excellent and compelling arguments for rejection on this one, and I'm going to follow his lead.

12 April 2009
Hardy--Accept

The combination of head/bill structure, overall size, darker mantle color and underwing pattern convinced me of the id.

21 June 2009
Hardy--Accept

same comments as first round

4-15-09
Carlisle--Accept

I'm a little bothered by the primary tips being described as slate-gray (as opposed to black) but competition (other features) against an adult Kumlien's was helpful ...

5-13-09
Carlisle--Accept

no change

4/28/2009
Darren Clark--Accept

Sounds good.

05-14-2009
Darren Clark--Reject, specific identification not established

Cliff brings up some good points and if a hybrid can't be safely ruled out I'd have to vote to reject.