Voting Comments
Record #: 31-B-06
Lesser Black-backed Gull
1st Round: 6-1
2nd Round: 4-3
3rd Round:
5-2
ACCEPT
|
1st Round |
2nd Round |
3rd Round |
| 010-11-2006. Shirley Sturts -- Accept Field marks given consistent with this species. Seen by several competent observers |
08-07-2007. Sturts -- Accept I'm staying with my first vote for the same reasons. |
11-04-2007. Shirley Sturts -- Accept I'm staying with my accept vote. Several experience observers saw the bird. I think they would have noted the size and structural differences if this had been a Kelp Gull. The Kelp Gull is much larger heavier billed bird and leg color is described in Sibley as dull greenish gray to yellowish. Also I agree with Charles " additional regional records put this one into context and I think minimize Cliff's concerns about the possibility of Kelp" |
| 010-12-2006. Chuck trost -- Accept Even though I don't like to vote on my own records, there is no doubt in my mind as to its identity. Multiple observers also confirmed it. |
08-12-2007. chuck trost -- Reject, specific identification not established I probably shouldn't vote again, but Shirley said it was OK. I couldn't proove that this bird wasn't a kelp gull, as they strongly resemble eachother. I have seen kelp gulls several times and remember a thicker bill at the gonys than this bird had. But it was quite dark, as Cliff noted, and according to Howell and Dunn's book Gulls of the Americas the grayer-backed graellsii race of lesser black-backed is the only one that should be here. So, I reverse my vote on my own bird. |
11-11-2007. chuck trost -- Accept I'm reversing my vote to the original. I'm convinced that I would have seen that larger bill on a kelp gull, and this bird was too small for a kelp. Several of us, including Marty collar looked carefully at the bird, and I believe that it had to be a LBBG. |
| 10/13/06. Cliff Weisse -- Reject, specific identification not established Although I saw this bird and am confident is was a Lesser Black-backed Gull the descriptions in the report are not sufficient to eliminate other possible species. Specifically Kelp Gull. I think structural traits are necessary for identification of this species. Especially bill shape, body shape, and primary extension. |
8/12/07. Cliff Weisse -- Reject, specific identification not established Again, although I saw this bird I feel the documentation is insufficient to confirm the identification. |
11/10/2007. Cliff Weisse -- Reject, specific identification not established I see Jay's point but I'm personally not comfortable assuming information that is not in the reports. Also regarding the likelihood of occurrence off Kelp Gull I'm not comfortable eliminating that species based on probability. Given the fact that Kelp Gull has bred in LA and northern Mexico and has been recorded in the Great Lakes and MD, it's certainly possible for Kelp Gull to occur in ID. Therefore I'd like to see a description of field marks that conclusively eliminates KEGU and hybrids with Herring Gull. |
| 010-25-2006. Dave Trochlell -- Accept Thanks to the excellent descriptions by Chuck and Cliff, I unreservedly accept this candidate as a Lesser Black-backed Gull record. |
08-19-2007. Dave Trochlell -- Reject, specific identification not established I'm guessing that our reporters most likely saw a LBBG, just as they contend. But Cliff's comments rightfully planted some seeds of doubt in me, because I'd forgotten to consider Kelp Gull as a competing species in the first voting round. If one considers this species as a possibility here, then size and structural differentiation must be made. |
11-16-2007. Dave Trochlell -- Reject, specific identification not established This was a very difficult vote for me, because I'm almost certain that the bird represented in these reports was a 3rd-cycle Lesser Black-backed Gull, as claimed. But I just can't accept this record in good consciousness, because the rare bird reports don't compete this bird against a Kelp Gull. An occurrence of Kelp Gull in Idaho would admittedly be a long shot, but I believe a record of Kelp Gull occurred in Colorado about four years ago. I would really love it if one or more of the observers named in this report would submit an addendum to this report for the committee to review that adequately competes this gull against Kelp Gull. |
| 11-4-06. Carlisle -- Accept Important details covered in report. |
9-2-07. Carlisle -- Accept While I appreciate Cliff's concerns about details lacking from reports, my sense is the observers that saw this bird would have noticed the critical shape & size differences to separate LBB Gull from a Kelp Gull. |
11-11-2007. Carlisle -- Accept In spite of the confusion regarding Cliff and Chuck being certain it was a LBBG but voting against the record, I vote again to accept it. It seems to me that the pale iris and bright yellow legs point towards LBBG and that the caliber of observers present would have worked to rule out other possibilities. |
| 11/14/2006. Charles Swift -- Accept Good description. Cliff's thoughts on subspecies are very interesting although I presume graellsii is by far the most likely subspecies (but who knows!). |
10/2/07. Charles Swift -- Accept See previous comments by all voters in support of this record. Also additional regional records put this one into context and I think minimize Cliff's concerns about the possibility of Kelp Gull. |
11/10/07. Charles Swift -- Accept I'm going to stick with my previous votes and previous comments still apply. I believe the observers high degree of confidence in their sighting originally plus the very low probablity of a Kelp Gull occurring in Idaho safely eliminate that species in this case. |
|
01-02-2007. |
20 August 2007. Hardy -- Accept Diagnostic field marks noted. |
8 January 2008. Hardy -- Accept I took very seriously Cliff's comments on the possibility of this being a Kelp Gull. It was difficult to reach a decision, but I have to agree with Jay's second round comment. And specifically, apart from the size/structure issues, Olsen describes Kelp Gull as having grayish or greenish legs, not yellow; this is also seen in the Olsen photos. This bird was observed in good viewing conditions, and the description of yellow legs detracts from the possibility that this was a KEGU. |