Rare Bird Report #: 2-B-96

Emails forwarded to SJP by Barbara Dorrell who hosted the bird:

>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Patterson <mpatters@oregonvos.net>
> To: Dorrell <dorrell@gte.net>
> Date: Sunday October 03 1999 5:56 AM
> Subject: Re: COSTA'S HUMMINGBIRD
>
>
> >First of all, I'm not sure what Costa's Hummingbird you're
> >talking about, nor do I know for sure where Squaw Bay is.
> >
> >Taking measurements, especially of nearby objects, from
> >a photograph is not as straight forward as you might think.
> >If you have photos and would like an opinion, I'd be happy
> >to look at them. You can e-mail digitized pictures to
> >me or mail me prints or slides (which I promise to return).
> >
> >If you choose to send things to me please include a clear
> >description of location, the date(s) the photographs were
> >taken and some narrative of any particulars about behavior,
> >others who saw this bird, things like that.
> >
> >> Dorrell wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Mike!!
> >>
> >> The other Cost's was seen at my feeder here at Squaw Bay.
> >>
> >> When Steven Lindsay was here, he and another observer decided that the
> >> bird was a Costa's. This fellow is a Veternarian who used to live in
> >> Arizona and was extremely familiar with the Costa's there. When I
> >> notified others through Shirley Sturts, quite a few others came but
> >> none had ever seen a Costa's.......after much debate, they decided it
> >> must be a cross. I believe Steven Lindsay.
> >>
> >> I took photos and had them enlarged. I never filed a report and Mr.
> >> Lindsay was too busy to help. By using photos and math, my son, a
> >> computer science student calculated the length of the hummingbird and
> >> it was easily the correct size for a Costa's. We used the feeder
> >> diameter and algebra for the calculations. I was the only one to
> >> hear the bird's call and it was a Costa's but because others felt that
> >> my experience wasn't that of theirs ( the only reason I could
> >> figure!!!), the rest were not sure and so, decided it must be an
> >> Anna's. They never saw the dark royal purple. It shows in my photos
> >> that they never saw. Only Mr. Lindsay saw my photos.
> >> Well......that's the story of the sighting at Squaw Bay. I thought
> >> you might be interested to know the circumstances.......
> >>
> >> I have been trying to bring up the video and photos you posted but the
> >> link that Steven Lindsay listed will not come up. Please email me
> >> the web site again and I hope to be able to view it.
> >>
> >> Thanks for your time and interest.
> >>
> >> Barbara Dorrell
> >> dorrell@gte.net
> >>
> >
> >--
> >Mike Patterson The common view of science is that it is a sort of
> machine
> >Astoria, OR for increasing the race's store of dependable
> facts.
> >mpatters@oregonvos.net It is that only in part; in even larger part
> > it is a machine for upsetting undependable
> facts.
> >
> > -----
> H.L.Mencken
> >http://www.pacifier.com/~mpatters/bird/bird.html
>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dorrell" <dorrell@gte.net>
To: <mpatters@oregonvos.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 03, 1999 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: COSTA'S HUMMINGBIRD


> Mike,
>
> I hope you took the information as to location of Squaw Bay off my earlier
> post.....
>
> More info: The hummingbird came on 5/7/96 and stayed for almost a month,
> more consistently in the beginning every 15 minutes. He was aggressive to
a
> point but more like a Calliope than a Rufous or a Black Chin......had no
> trouble feeding with other males but was mixed in with the Calliopes most
of
> the time as that is the dominant species here. There were other Rufous
> here at the time but only a couple males......black chins came in a little
> later. He spent a lot of time in a nearby forsynthia bush where I
watched
> him preen and the dark purple flash.
>
> Like I said earlier, the photos were taken from 2 feet away with a Nikon
> 35mm film camera. The bird was ID'd by the veterarian Steven Lindsay as
a
> Costa's. His fellow birder who came along, I do not know his name. Dr.
> Lindsay was originally from Arizona where Costa's was commonly seen. I
had
> told him it was a Costa's before he had even seen the bird and he agreed
> with me.
>
> Let me know if you need any more information. I hope the pictures do the
> bird justice. I was able to stand in the shaded corner near the feeder
and
> take the photos. I have many more but these are the best of them except
for
> that one that is so grainy that I sent along anyway.
>
> Thanks again for your consideration of the photos and your time.
>
> Barbara Dorrell
> dorrell@gte.net
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Patterson" <mpatters@oregonvos.net>
To: "Dorrell" <dorrell@gte.net>
Sent: Monday, October 04, 1999 5:29 AM
Subject: Re: COSTA'S HUMMINGBIRD?


> This unequivocally a Costa's Hummingbird.
>
> > Dorrell wrote:
> >
> > Hi Mike,
> >
> > These are the pictures of the Costa's from Squaw Bay that I promised
> > to send.....let me know what you think!!
> >
> > Barbara Dorrell
> > dorrell@gte.net
> >
> >
> > Name: costas1 (1).jpg
> > costas1 (1).jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)
> > Encoding: base64
> >
> > Name: costas2 (1).jpg
> > costas2 (1).jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)
> > Encoding: base64
> >
> > Name: costas3 (1).jpg
> > costas3 (1).jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)
> > Encoding: base64
>
> --
> Mike Patterson The common view of science is that it is a sort of
machine
> Astoria, OR for increasing the race's store of dependable
facts.
> mpatters@oregonvos.net It is that only in part; in even larger part
> it is a machine for upsetting undependable
facts.  

-----Original Message-----
> From: mike patterson <mpatters@OregonVOS.net>
> To: Stephen L. Lindsay, PhD, DVM <slindsay@dmi.net>
> Date: Monday, October 04, 1999 1:24 PM
> Subject: Re: COSTA'S HUMMINGBIRD (from 1996)
>
>
> >The photo sent to me is unequically an Costa's Hummingbird.
> >It is not an Anna's nor does it show any of the features
> >normally associated with COHUxANHU.
> >
> >It is not unusual for "experts" to dismiss unusual sighting
> >by unknown observers (I've even lapsed into to this behavior
> >myself on occasion).
> >
> >I will be posting the best of the photos this evening.
> >

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen L. Lindsay, PhD, DVM" <slindsay@dmi.net>
To: "Barbara Dorrell" <dorrell@gte.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 4:42 PM
Subject: Fw: COSTA'S HUMMINGBIRD (from 1996)


> Barbara-
>
> I have been in touch with Mike Patterson on the matter of the Costa's
> Hummingbird at your place back in 1996. Obviously he has no doubt either
> about its being a Costa's.
>
> I am sorry that I did not follow up on the matter back then. I was going
> through some rough times in my personal life and had more than I could
> handle. I am back on track now and was reminded of your Costa's when I
saw
> a post on OBOL recently about a Costa'sXAnna's in Bend, Oregon. Then I
saw
> a post yesterday on OBOL from Mike about your correspondence with him.
>
> Certainly your bird needs to be submitted to the Idaho Rare Bird
Committee,
> but I understand from other birders that the committee is either not
> currently functioning, or that they are not letting people know what they
> are doing. In either case, if you would like help submitting a report,
I'd
> be glad to try to push something through. The arrogance of a lot of these
> committees angers me and I'd love the challenge right now.
>
> Anyway, I am sorry that I was not of any help before, but if you'd like
some
> help now I'm available.
>
> Stephen Lindsay
> slindsay@dmi.net

---- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen L. Lindsay, PhD, DVM" <slindsay@dmi.net>
To: "Barbara Dorrell" <dorrell@gte.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 5:39 PM
Subject: rare bird report - Costa's Hummingbird


> Barbara -
>
> I will begin working on the rare bird report on the Costa's Hummingbird.
I
> am going to get the ball rolling by looking into the Committee and their
> functioning. I have had reports that they are not currently very
> responsive. I will seek to get official word that there are no previous
> reports for Idaho. That will get them thinking about our report.
>
> In the meantime, get some copies of the better photos, the ones you will
> want to submit with the report. Did you read the debate I forwarded to
you?
> It will be helpful to answer those objections before they come up in the
> rare bird committee. So, look for photos that show the parts of the bird
> that they refer to. I will put together the written report for you to
> review once I have the pictures. We may even submit the debate with our
> rebuttal, along with Mike Patterson's opinion.
>
> I will be occupied with some field work the next few weeks, but will get
> this all put together through the fall. I intend to keep after the
> committee until we get an answer, but that may take some time (years?).
>
> Keep in touch.
>
> Stephen Lindsay
> Coeur d'Alene, Idaho
> slindsay@dmi.net
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dorrell" <dorrell@gte.net>
To: "Stephen L. Lindsay, PhD, DVM" <slindsay@dmi.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: rare bird report - Costa's Hummingbird


> Hi Stephen!!
>
> I have lots more pictures of the Costa's that I did not have
> enlarged......mainly because I was looking for one that showed the deep
> royal purple coloration in the photo. I have 3"X 5" ones showing the
white
> breast markings (Anna's are more green) and ones that show the
relationship
> between the wing-tip length and the tail length. I DO have a double set
of
> the ones that I emailed you already made up which have been enlarged. My
> son is bringing his scanner and his laptop home from the University of
Idaho
> this weekend and he said he would help me scan them so I could send them
to
> you..........Mike Patterson would like to see them also. I think your
> opinion is very valuable, more so than any of the conversation that I have
> read so far seeing as you actually saw the bird!!!! I researched it
while
> the bird was here and spent hours watching him...........I could not
> understand why no one would believe me. All the guides list a different
> length for the Costa's with a range of 1/2" in size. The pictures and
the
> feeder can be measured to calculate his length. We used lots of pictures
to
> do so and the bird always fell within the correct length.........(my son
the
> computer-science student is a math whiz!!!!). So..........I am so
> grateful that you now have the time to help with this!!!
>
> Seeing as it has already been awhile since the bird was here.......I guess
a
> little more time won't hurt!!! It is good that Shirley and so many others
> came to see the bird. It is too bad that more of them had not ever seen
a
> Costa's before which I think hurt the debate. Most hadn't even seen an
> Anna's.
>
> May I ask, who is Mike Patterson? I know he is obviously a birder, well
> known to Shirley Sturts as she seems to value his opinion.........does he
> work out of the University of Oregon and if so, what does he do there? I
am
> just curious!! I suppose I should be asking him all this but I certainly
> wouldn't want to appear rude.
>
> Shirley is monitering all this and I am supposed to keep her
> informed.......she gave me the email of the head of the Rare Bird
committee
> and suggested I email him the photo but I do not think that is wise right
> now until we get everything together. I will do my best to get you the
> pictures and information you need. I know what I saw, the behavior I
> observed in relation to the Calliopes, Rufous, and Black-Chins, and what I
> heard of his call. I spent many hours looking at color photos and
> descriptions while he was here to make sure I knew what he was and looking
> for the markings that would prove his ID. Boy, am I glad I took lots of
> pictures!!!!
>
> I would be honored to work with you in this endeavor!!!
>
> Barbara Dorrell
> dorrell@gte.net
>

From: Barbara Dorrell
To Stacy Jon Peterson

10/31/2004

Hi!

By now, you have received quite a few forwards about this subject.

In answer to one question of Dr. Lindsey from Kas Dumroese, yes, he was here with another birder (I don't know his name), and spent quite some time viewing the bird from 3 feet away. We were inside and viewed the bird through the window which is 3 feet away from the feeder. The pictures I sent show that feeder.

I am sorry some of the smaller pictures are so dark. I have the originals but have not had them enlarged. It is a rather spendy thing to do and at that time, I just chose the ones that you have the large copies of. I have those inhand as well as the negatives of the other ones.

Anyway, please excuse the references from my son down in Moscow about his TV and all. :oD I didn't have a scanner or the capability to post the pictures online like he did and he was kind enough to help me.

I spent a lot of time watching this bird. The dark, royal purple that I viewed wasn't anything like the Anna's and the length of the feathers that looked like a long, long mustache tip of those dark purple colors aren't like the Anna's either.

Dr. Lindsey has extensive time viewing Costa's hummingbirds as he spent a lot of time in Arizona, where they are prevelent. His first reaction to seeing the bird was an unequivocal, "It's a Costas". He spent more time viewing it as it returned to the feeder again and again.

So, with that thought in mind, I am hoping Dr. Lindsey will help me get this Rare Bird report in and settled, once and for all. :o)

Thank you for your time and consideration of all these emails.

Barbara Dorrell

dorrell@gte.net

From: Barbara Dorrell
To: Stacy Jon Peterson

Hi!

I was alone in the yard with the Costa's in the forsynthia bush which is 10 feet from the feeder when I heard him. It was a rapid ticking sound, unlike the other hummers that I was used to. It only happened once in all the times I sat outside and watched him from close-up.

Barbara

----- Original Message -----

From: SJPeterson@aol.com

To: dorrell@gte.net

Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 12:25 PM

Subject: Re: Fw: rare bird report - Costa's Hummingbird

In a message dated 10/31/2004 11:17:52 AM Mountain Standard Time, dorrell@gte.net writes:

I know what I saw, the behavior I
> observed in relation to the Calliopes, Rufous, and Black-Chins, and what I
> heard of his call.

HI Barbara...

I'm working on getting additional opinions from experts in the hummingbird field on the bird you had in 1996. Above (and in another email), you mentioned being the only one to hear it's call. That probably hurt the debate, too, since a calling Costa's in the presence of multiple observers is hard to dispute!

But no where have I read any description of what the call sounded like to you. Did you write in any of your notes any sort of description of that call? How did you know it was a Costa's by voice? That sort of information will probably go a long way to supporting the observation as Costa's... Costa's and Anna's both have fairly unique calls (indeed, the Anna's "sings" and that should have been heard at least once if an adult male Anna's were spending nearly a month in May in your yard)! Both Costa's and Anna's calls are different from the other typical hummers we have -- but they are also distinctly different from each other. I'm anxious to hear how you describe this bird's vocalizations.

I look forward to hearing from you again. Best wishes,

--Stacy  

From: Barbara Dorrell
To: Stacy Jon Peterson

Hi!

The reason for the comments on length and measurement has to do with a couple of other emails that I have from others who thought the bird was too big for a Costas. I didn't think he was as he fit within the guidelines as compared to the other Calliopes, Blackchins and Rufous. So......lol.....that's why the reference to that!

You are more than welcome to share my photos. I know what I saw and the deep, deep purple, along with the other field marks, clinches it for me. Anna's just never, ever shows that color.

I am a lowly birder. Dr. Lindsey is a professional veternarian and fellow birder. I hope, between the two of us, we can finally get this recorded.

Hopefully,

Barbara

----- Original Message -----

From: SJPeterson@aol.com

To: dorrell@gte.net

Cc: s.sturts@verizon.net

Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 12:31 PM

Subject: Re: Costa's Hummingbird at Squaw Bay, Idaho

In a message dated 10/31/2004 11:42:46 AM Mountain Standard Time, dorrell@gte.net writes:

By now, you have received quite a few forwards about this subject.

HI Barabara (and Shirley),

This is incredible!!! I've banded a couple Costa's in California (though not adult males), and a number (dozens, guessing) of Anna's of all ages in California. In my opinion I can't see anything in these photos that would cause me to vote against Costa's, particularly given the comments you (Barbara) provided (re: field marks) in the emails.

I would suggest caution on using measurements of "body length" in identification. There is surprising overlap in many species of hummingbirds (contrary to many published field guides) when it comes to body length. Too many variables (stretching, cold temps, molt, etc.) come into play. The relative length of body parts to other body parts (bill length to head width; wing to tail, etc.) is a bit better, but angle of photo can still adversely effect this measurement. So for those reasons I don't put a lot of stock in indications of body length measurements for hummingbirds, regardless of how accurate they may be...

I would like the opportunity to forward the best of the photos to a couple addition hummingbird-bander friends for their opinion. (Mike Patterson who already responded is a humbander from Oregon). With your permission, I'll do that and let you know what they suggest. One person I think would be able to provide valuable insight is Sheri Williamson in Arizona. She's the expert in all regards on these hummers -- as you may know, she wrote the recent Peterson Field Guide on hummingbirds. She is very good at looking at relative length of body features to help identify the bird (say, bill length, tail length, etc.). May I have your permission to share a couple of the photos with her and perhaps others?

I'm glad you and Shirley are stirring the pot on this bird record again. I know for a fact that the Idaho Bird Records Committee is entering a new phase in its existence, and you will certainly be pleased with the process (compared to what it was in the past). It may take a bit to get it all running smoothly, but it's a giant leap in the right direction.

A few addition comments on Costa's... This species usually shows a "dumpy" or "fluffed-up" appearance. Your bird appears somewhat more sleak in all the photos, which is "good" for Anna's. But that can be attributed to posture and stretching, I suspect. The color and shape of the gorget "wings" are good for Costa's, and I can't see anything else that would make me think otherwise.

A Costa's in northern Idaho is not out of the question. I began tracking vagrant hummingbird reports in winter and fall in 1999, and in the last couple of winters this species has shown up in Minnesota, Colorado, Montana, and even Alaska. They do have a tendency to wander. The SEASON you saw the northern Idaho bird is really more interesting -- early May... But this species does breed very early (winter, actually) in the southwest, so this could have been a post-breeding wanderer...

Anyway, thanks again for sharing your information and photos with me. I look forward to hearing the opinions of others and eventually a decision by the Idaho BRC...

Keep in touch!

Best,

--Stacy

That concludes the email correspondence. Note that I have since backed away from the ID as a pure Costa's... And if a rare bird report from Dr. Lindsay exists, I have no knowledge of it.

-- Stacy